Part 1 of a "debate" between David Crowe and Dr. Boyd Graves on CKLN radio in Canada, recorded April 1, 2008. The program was intended to be a one-hour debate between Crowe and Graves, but Graves hung up after the first 15 minutes, and the moderator took a lot of unnecessary time trying to get him back on the phone. Regardless, Crowe delivers his usual impeccable expertise about HIV and AIDS, and points out that Graves has a conflict of interest claiming that HIV was the intentional result of a US government program in which Dr. Peter Duesberg participated, trying to sell his so-called "AIDS cure" which he has patented.